Curse

lyra_song · Apr 21, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

since the new slots for sale brought the arguement back up....

heres my refined concept.

i think if Anet had come up with a better presentation, the 4+4=6 would have gotten a lot less flak.

Personally people hate fractions (not factions) so the 8(1/2) vs 6 whole is kinda confusing~~

I refined my theme park analogy better. ^_^ People love theme parks...

Theres a theme park and a water park next to each other. (Representing both games)

Theres a family of 4. A father, a mother, a son and daughter. They only buy season passes in sets of 4 (Representing 4 slots)

The family buys 4 season passes to the theme park. (Representing buying Chapter 1 only). Now the family can only go to the theme park and since season passes have pictures, only they can go to the theme park. No one else.

The next summer, the same family buys 4 season passes to the water park but not to the theme park (Representing buying Chapter 2 only). The season passes can only be used by the family of 4 and it means they can only access the water park.

Now. The next summer, the family decides to buy 4 season passes for both the theme park and the water park. (Merged account).

Even if the season passes were physically 8 cards, only the same family of 4 can go, because they have pictures on the season passes. (Meaning there would be only 4 slots for the merged account)

But wait a minute, the theme park and the water park have a special. If you buy 4 theme park passes and 4 water park passes, they give you 2 sets of passes for free. (Representing the two bonus slots)

So the family of 4 can bring along the girl's annoying boyfriend all the time, and the boy's best friend who always buys a soft serve to BOTH the parks as a bonus.

Plus If you have bought the family season pass set of 4 to either park, you can buy another season pass without buying a whole set of 4.

-----------

So to those who disagree with the concept. Using a similar or the same analogy, explain WHY you deserve 8 slots.

Esprit · Apr 21, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

I prefer your explanation in your flash thread.

Factions: $50 (cost of expansion: $30 cost of 2 bonus slots $20)

With the fact that we will be able to buy additional slots for $10, it is easier to accept why we have 2 slots.

Note: All numbers are in USD. ^_^

Konrow · Apr 21, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

maybe this will finally clear it up for the people whi didn't get it the first time

WetWookie · Apr 21, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

I would agree with this analogy....

if Anet's goal was to make my characters happy instead of me. I'm the one paying for the products, not my characters.

A more accurate analogy would be
One 4 hour ticket to theme park = $50
One 4 hour ticket to water park = $50
One 6 hour ticket to theme+water park = $100

Wouldn't you expect the package deal to be less then the full cost of both tickets or at the very least get the same content (8 hours)?

Ishmaeel · Apr 21, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

@OP : Good one. Funny read too. Thanks.

One minor addition: When the water park opens for service in the neighborhood, two relatives (Aunt A & Uncle Rt) actually come from the countryside and decide to squat in the family's house. Now, if you decide to buy only passes for the water park, auntie and unk will have to sit @ home. (Meaning the only people who would be royally screwed would be the hypothetical factions-only customers)

Here's what (IMO,OC) Anet should have done: Offer 5 slots for standalone factions. Standalone Prophecies stays at 4. When you merge, you instantly upgrade to the 5 slots offered by factions. But wait! You also get one bonus for the loyalty you displayed by owning both campaigns. Final total: 6 slots.

I think there would be less complaints this way, because it would be clearer that the 4 of the slots offered by GW: F are not new ones, but they correspond to the ones offered by GW: P. Also, those people (whom we know not to exist, but pretend anyway) who will buy GW: F as a standalone product would not be cheated off one char slot.

This, of course would only be agreed upon by those who are content with every class represented either as primary or as secondary in their slots and one PvP slot to spare. (3 unique class combos for P, 4 unique class combos for F and an empty slot for both)

The reality of course, is you'll find most of the people you targeted with your post, in fact, think they deserve not 8 but 9 slots - one for each primary and one for PvP. (I won't mention the deranged minority that wants one slot for every possible combo - 36 slots that is?)

lyra_song · Apr 21, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetWookie

I would agree with this analogy....

if Anet's goal was to make my characters happy instead of me. I'm the one paying for the products, not my characters.

A more accurate analogy would be
One 4 hour ticket to theme park = $50
One 4 hour ticket to water park = $50
One 6 hour ticket to theme+water park = $100

Wouldn't you expect the package deal to be less then the full cost of both tickets or at the very least get the same content (8 hours)?

You cant use the time analogy because you dont pay monthly fees. Guild Wars fees are up front and basically eternal. Which is closer to a season pass than a 4 hour ticket.

edit:

With a season pass, you can basically go one day for 2 hours...or go another day for 8 hours. Doesnt matter because you already paid. Most theme park season passes pay for themselves after 2-3 visits anyway. I think if you get 40-50 hours of gameplay out of GW, then its ALREADY paid for itself.

WetWookie · Apr 21, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

The hours were symbolic for character slots, not monthly fees. If I can't make that analogy then you can't make the analogy of a family of 4. I'm one person.

Count to Potato · Apr 21, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Simple math Lyra, i thought some deep calculus, and algorithms would do the trick

WetWookie · Apr 21, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I don't really care about fuzzy math or rationalizations or anything. All I know is that I want 1 slot for each primary profession + 1 for PvP.
In other words, the problem is not their math. The problem is that the original product had 4 slots. If Prophesies had 7 slots and Factions had 9 slots I would be perfectly happy with Prophesies + Factions = 9 slots (even though mathematically I'm giving up my Prophesies slots)

lyra_song · Apr 21, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetWookie

I don't really care about fuzzy math or rationalizations or anything. All I know is that I want 1 slot for each primary profession + 1 for PvP.
In other words, the problem is not their math. The problem is that the original product had 4 slots. If Prophesies had 7 slots and Factions had 9 slots I would be perfectly happy with Prophesies + Factions = 9 slots (even though mathematically I'm giving up my Prophesies slots)

See...why didnt you say that?

I've yet to find someone with a good explanation WHY they deserve 8 slots total with a merged account.

I completely agree that Prophecies should have had more player slots. If you see my profile, i only have 3 characters. 1 slot is reserved for PvP. Its very impractical, and annoying and it makes me want to buy another account.

HOWEVER.....I understand that since the game is free, money only comes from the initial purchase, and if we had 6 slots (or 7) there would be very little incentive to buy additional accounts.

That is the true problem.

crimsonfilms · Apr 21, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

I don't think that made it clearer for me. It actually made it worse.

eudas · Apr 21, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

When do you find time to play each of 1 primary profession *Plus* PVP?

eudas

lyra_song · Apr 21, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

When do you find time to play each of 1 primary profession *Plus* PVP?

eudas

Well summer is coming up...

Gli · Apr 21, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I've yet to find someone with a good explanation WHY they deserve 8 slots total with a merged account.

Then again, ANet never offered us a good explanation why they put it at 6.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

When do you find time to play each of 1 primary profession *Plus* PVP?eudas

Errr.. why do people always ask questions with totally obvious answers.

You have x time. You spend x/a time playing your warrior; you spend x/b time playing your monk; you spend x/c time playing your mesmer; you spend x/d time playing your necromancer; you spend x/e time playing your ranger; you spend x/f time playing your elementalist; you spend x/g time playing PvP; where 1/a+1/b+1/c+1/d+1/e+1/f+1/g = 1.

The actual values of a,b,c,d,e,f,g and x are irrelevant. Anyone who spends any time playing at all (x>0) can, if they chose to, find the time to play each primary plus PvP.

It's a matter of setting priorities, not a matter of time.

lyra_song · Apr 21, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Then again, ANet never offered us a good explanation why they put it at 6.

You didnt read my opening post did you? How about any of the gaile chat logs?

~_~

Gli · Apr 21, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I read your post twice over. I read every Gaile log I could get my hands on. I can only make out reasons why 6 isn't the rip-off people believe it to be. It doesn't answer the question why they don't go above and beyond the 'it's not a rip-off' level of service.

Also, all those 'explanations' work off the premise that the 4 slots for the original game are a desirable number to begin with, which isn't true in the minds of many people. Starting in a undesirable position, it's easy to argue that any improvement is in fact an improvement, but it doesn't guarantee we'll end up in a desirable position.

lyra_song · Apr 21, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I read your post twice over. I read every Gaile log I could get my hands on. I can only make out reasons why 6 isn't the rip-off people believe it to be. It doesn't answer the question why they don't go above and beyond the 'it's not a rip-off' level of service.

Also, all those 'explanations' work off the premise that the 4 slots for the original game are a desirable number to begin with, which isn't true in the minds of many people. Starting in a undesirable position, it's easy to argue that any improvement is in fact an improvement, but it doesn't guarantee we'll end up in a desirable position.

I never argued that it was a desirable position to have 4 to begin with.

Im just arguing that it makes MORE sense to give us 6 when merged, as opposed to giving us 8 slots when merged. Getting 8 slots doesnt make ANY SENSE.

Where did this "We deserve 8" come from? Desire.

This is the point im trying to drive.

We should only get 4, but they give us 6. Wether you like it or not, Anet's decision makes sense, based on how the game is set up.

Do I sound like a brainwashed Anet lackey? Sure I do! XD

But guess what...I WANT MORE SLOTS. Thats the fact. Not that we deserve it. Even with chapter 1. We were ALWAYS deprived of the 2 slots. Its only human nature to want more.

WetWookie · Apr 21, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I read your post twice over. I read every Gaile log I could get my hands on. I can only make out reasons why 6 isn't the rip-off people believe it to be. It doesn't answer the question why they don't go above and beyond the 'it's not a rip-off' level of service.

Also, all those 'explanations' work off the premise that the 4 slots for the original game are a desirable number to begin with, which isn't true in the minds of many people. Starting in a undesirable position, it's easy to argue that any improvement is in fact an improvement, but it doesn't guarantee we'll end up in a desirable position.

This is one of the best posts on the topic I've ever seen. I was just thinking something along the same lines. I always see posts like "well it's not as bad as XXGAMEXX". It reminds me of political commercials. "Vote for me because I'm not as bad as that guy".

sdliddo · Apr 21, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

shrug dont matter both ways. Like i said in the past people will always find a way to complain about ever tiny bit. You cant please everyone but ANEt's choice for providing extra slots is definitely a good move.

Too bad it came a day late since i bought me another account gah

Gli · Apr 21, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Im just arguing that it makes MORE sense to give us 6 when merged, as opposed to giving us 8 slots when merged. Getting 8 slots doesnt make ANY SENSE.

Where did this "We deserve 8" come from? Desire.

You're the only one using the 'deserve' word. Desire is exactly why it makes more sense to sell 8 instead of 6. Keeping return costumers happy is one if the top priorities of any business. Apparently there's a higher priority at work here; one we can only guess at because ANet isn't spilling the goods. My guess here is, and it's supported by the new slot selling initiative, that the good old software industry meme of 'Why include this feature now if we can sell it to them later?' is at work here.

And let me be the first to concede that that's all well and good. They're a company, they need to make money. It's just a little weak to hide behind pointless 'marketing math' that tries to force logic-that-really-isn't past our common sense.